The witness

Paganelli: "The Shepherd came to my house..."

A match between Nice and Saint-Etienne. A desire to call Laurent Paganelli, with his rich history in the game. A man from the South (Avignon), a career as a player with  Les Verts (where he began his career in L1 at just 15 years of age), a role as an (emblematic) pundit on Canal +. A whole host of questions prepared in advance. A bit of pressure, plenty of excitement. A couple of text messages, a few emojis with it and then the phone is answered. The man at the end of the phone is the same as the man you see on television. Those pre-prepared questions remained in the warmth of a closed book. 

Paga’, Nice – St-Etienne, what’s the first thing that comes to mind?

The past. I grew up with some incredible matches. Baratelli, Katalinski, Molitor, Huck and Jouve on one side; Bereta, Rocheteau and all of the group on the other. It was something else... I remember playing at the Ray, one time we won (4-1) with Platini. They were real football matches, matches where you took each other to pieces and they had a real high standard technically. It was fiery, but it was good... The games between Nice and Sainté back in the day make me nostalgic.

Why?

Because of everything. The shirts, the atmosphere, the players... I loved the Ray, the dressing rooms, the stadium, the pitch, the people behind the goals. I played there as a youngster with the South Eastern team, it really got me going. The new stadium is magnificent, but the Ray, that was my childhood. 

For the older Niçois, Nice – Saint-Etienne will always make them think of Mr. Wurtz...

Why?

The match in 1975-76, which cost the Gym the title...

I have a vague memory of that. But coming from Mr. Wurtz, I am not surprised (laughs). He was “different”, we loved him for that. He was capable of doing senseless things, destabilising players and teams on his own. A match like that, he could make it explode. 

He had to be escorted out of the stadium…

I am not surprised. Nowadays, there are so many things that happen, you end up forgetting quickly. Before, it wasn’t like that. When something happened, and even more so when you were robbed by a referee, it was spoken about all week, for the whole month, the year even. We played cards and would still talk about it, we wouldn’t sleep. There was only work and football, so when we felt that we were cheated out of the match, we took it to heart. It could make us hate a referee for our whole lives. 

Do you still take as much pleasure from football?  

Yes. I have loved football from every angle, in every moment. The difference between the era is only that nowadays people who don’t like football can make a living from it. Now, we hear lots more negatives. 10 players are good and one was bad, you will always see the finger pointed. It hasn’t always been the case and it won’t ever be my way of doing things. I prefer to be positive and to enjoy myself.

Football has become too serious?

Far too serious!

In what way? 

Everything has closed in on itself. I will give you an example, without wanting to look like the old idiot. When I played for Saint-Etienne – in fact, my first goal was against Nice -, before the match, we went through the crowds to go and warm up on the adjoining pitch. We did some sprints and there you go. At the end of the match, the journalists came into the dressing room, we spoke with them before listening to the coach. For me, that is football. Everyone together. I grew up like that. 

“We aren’t at the opera, theatre, tennis or golf” 

So now, there are more barriers?

Definitely, but it’s not because of this that I am going to change. At Canal, I am often criticised for turning up a bit late to the games, but that isn’t the case (he laughs). What I like to do, is to come 3 hours before kick-off and to talk to everyone, the supporters, the staff, the ground staff, the physios, the coaches, the caretaker of the stadium, the president... They live the daily life of the club. When you speak to them, you take on the atmosphere, you have all the facts in your head. At kick-off, I am so ready that I could even go out onto the pitch. I don’t want to distance myself from the people that make football. Proximity is crucial. Even at Sainté as a pro, we lived close to the people. Football isn’t something that should be serious. 

Can you expand on that? 

The fact that the players invest in it is normal, it’s their job, but aside from that, it’s only a game. Nothing but a game. That’s why I am against everything that closes it. The goal is to make people happy. Even if you lose, you need to enjoy yourself. You work all week, you don’t want to see a boring game at the stadium, it’s meant to be a hobby, a show. You pay and you give up your time to attend. It’s like the opening of the curtains… We stopped them “to maintain the pitch”. Can you imagine the stage that we have got to? You need to add a bit of simplicity into things and put football in its place. We aren’t at the opera, theatre, the tennis or the golf. We are talking about football, a sport played in the street, in the local area. A social sport. You play, you feel bad, but you leave happy, at one with yourself and with a smile.

You don’t recognise football nowadays?

That’s not the point. On the pitch and in the dressing room, nothing changes and will never change. The problem is that off of the pitch, the players can be surrounded by players who can bully and isolate them. Let’s stop with that! Open everything up! Force them to live in the city, like it was before, let’s stop protecting them, cutting them off from everything. The guys hit each other all day and we place them in a bubble so that they aren’t bothered? It’s ridiculous. Nobody needs that, neither the players, nor the fans, nor us. Give them a ball in the street, that will remind them of their childhood, because football, they learned it in the real world, not in a cocoon. You aren’t obliged to make them carry their bag or isolate them. The guys just want to take photos with the kids, to have a laugh with the fans, to go and buy a baguette, to live alongside others.

Here, we remember your interview with Mario Balotelli on the physio table...

Every time he sees me, Balotelli hits my hand. I love him, he is a monster, but he is like everyone, he needs love, needs us to be interested in him. The closer he gets to people, the happier he is, the better he gets. He is approachable, he likes people. Mario is a great footballer and a great guy, even though he has his fragilities.

“The language of football is simple”

What is your link with the football of today?

I don’t have anyone that I call all the time, but the likes of Der Zakarian, Galtier, Garcia, Puel, Roussey, are all from my generation, we played together or against each other. Every time I see them, we say hello, it’s always nice. For the rest of the time, I am pretty solitary, I live on an island, opposite Avignon. I like to be there with my wife and my dog. My son is married with a lady from Japan, I look after my grandson, Marius. I make the most of the simple things and for me, football is a continuation of life. It can’t be a chore.

If I said to you: “This evening, we did the job”, what would you say to me?

That words are being created and that annoys me. The language of football is simple, passionate. Even if you speak badly, it’s not a problem, as long as it’s sincere. On some shows, you don’t feel like you are at the bar, but rather with a group of literaries  I can’t stand that.

For you, the Nice – Saint-Etienne rivalry, is…

Just a sporting rivalry. When I played against Nice, it was great, because we had a club in front of us that we respected a lot.

Is the match against the Gym one that is looked forward to for Les Verts?

To be honest, no. It’s just a super football match to play in and to experience.

How do you rate the two sides this season?

I have seen Nice three or four times and we get the feeling that the team is being built. There has been a huge amount of work by Patrick Vieira, real content, a real squad that is picking up points. Honestly, the team is progressing very quickly. St-Etienne, are in a similar position. They are very competitive, defend very well, are formidable at home and away. For me, their squad is a little bit more experienced, on the whole, than Nice. It is going to be a great match.

Finally, can you tell us a bit about the Shepherd, with whom we often see you during matches?

I am very close to him. If I am at the stadium, I take him in with me, wherever it may be, because he is someone that really touches me. I have known him for a long time. He is a real friend, I love the depth of his soul. One day he said to me: “I am coming to your house tonight”, so I waited for him all evening. After two hours, he wasn’t there and so I went up to bed. The next day, my wife came to see me and said that somebody had slept on the bench in front of the house, it was him. He came in, we had lunch and spent time together, we spoke and spoke… Sometimes, he told me some impossible things, I don’t understand everything, but that’s what I like. That is football.